• The Markus Allen Show (full archives)
• This open source software links 96% of Grin transactions
• Token Sniffer
• Epic Cash's top holders
• Originating Address of Epic Cash
321 Wheeler greetings greetings this is the uncle Galante show this is a very special edition of the uncle vigilante show coming to you live at noon Eastern on July 4 and there are going to be some fireworks today and I cover epic cash my name is uncle VIN apologetically cover epic cash in with me today I have three special guess Marcus Allen I will I will properly introduce you in a few minutes but I also i have had some who are known to the community I'm sure Max Freeman founder of epic cash and then our lead tech engineer Todd Lewis is on the lines with line with us and basically from these two it was a magical experience I think it included a little bit of wine a a little bit she'll go over here you don't have a cash was born in Inn and that's that's pretty exciting it's grown up to be a pretty good looking little toddler we'll talk about that but I wanna I wanna share with you or first of all let me just let me type let me set the table regarding Marcus so there is a subculture out there or a community out they are truth or community if you will and Marcus I'll read a note that I wrote an epic cash today just describing Marcus a little bit but let's just say in that community he's kind of a BFD he's kind of a big deal you know he's been at this for years and years and years and I will give you all the respect in the world Marcus on the things that I agree with you on epic cash is not one of them but but but you know you are one hell of a researcher and I to hang on your every word and I ate I try to listen to most things to come out where you're part of a podcast while I was listening to a podcast recently and I was just listening and then we're about 2/3 the way through and then all the sudden you know my name was the boat and I'm like holy cow so this is Marcus sorry Marcus I don't mean to docks you but Marcus likes playing golf and he was playing golf and when he takes a swing this is the comment that I'm gonna share with you when he hits that ball there's a comment in up here it's where I am listening and well let me just go ahead and and show this to you just kind of my reaction to Marcus's comment OK first of all here we go that was a little loud but that wasn't that was my my response I don't know if that was my share sound on Todd Lewis it was oh OK OK great great so yeah out of the air that was my visceral reaction when I heard Marcus and I'm gonna share with see what his comment was but with me before I do I wanna I wanna I just wanna give a shout out to crypto fire side crypto fireside is new to the community and he is an Australian blogger and he has a hell of a blog I my dad he knows his stuff when it comes to crypto and he asked to interview me and I'm like sure I i always do the interviewing so he asked interview me but it's a little bit different of an interview that I didn't know and it was it's a written one because he post to block so I wanted to share with you a portion of what I responded back to him that's going to tee up my my two to yes he said what have been the most influential things in your life that affect did your project he's talking about epic cash this can include books podcasts are people so I wrote two things I said Max Freeman is single-handedly my greatest influence within crypto if you told me in five is it he's actually Satoshi Nakamoto I believe you my channel has hundreds and hundreds of hours of Max room and interviews where he drops knowledge on our community like no for the crypto project leader worldwide if you got any of my anything I'm riding here my body of work speaks for itself and I have linked body of work to my YouTube account feel free to verify before you trust that's the smart thing to do regardless and I continue additionally epic cashes lead tech engineer is Todd Lewis and he's been a tremendous influence he's an outstanding individual I love Todd Louis he's not only a brilliant cryptographer but he's also a normal dude great sense of humor he and I are just wrapping up a series called Quest for superior honey I encourage all reader and a link to it encourage all readers to see our most recent episode for contacts and then go back to the beginning of this year to series where we take a deep dive into the necessary attributes that would make up money if that was truly superior in all form so just wanted to tell you that Max Freeman I know that we kind of have a general rule as matter fact I just got mine in the mail you got yours in the mail do I understand can you please confirm sure did locate your wife for these these are timers Max tends to go on in and so we we have a one minute timer two minute three minute four minute and this little pack snacks for today guess what we're doing what is throw them out the window there's no time limit on anything that you say you want to say today because we're gonna get get to the bottom of some serious bud here no the introduced him I guess Marcus Allen I posted that we were going to be able to have this this discussion today you guys saw Marcus take a swing add a comment I'm gonna play it for you and then you saw my reaction from above but somebody in the yep at Cash community ask who is Marcus Allen someone important so with all due respect and I mean that Marcus but but one area I said there's an entire subculture of what some might call conspiracy theorist but after what I witnessed these past three years I would instead call them conspiracy fatuous in that subculture Marcus is og and is a very thorough researcher he just happens to not know shit about crypto yet speaks with authority like he does with all due respect of all subcultures the truth or community make up individual super mindful of independent liberty autonomy and privacy they are the most censored group on the planet thus epic cash is a wonderful solution for them breaking from the Bankster controlled network where their prior means of support have all been shut off these are folks who hang on marks is every word so when I heard him spouting utter ignorant nonsense about epic cash what did I do I do what I do and I confronted the nonsense and I invited you on Marcus Marcus before I play the play the little clip that's gonna give everyone context would you mind if I asked you just for simple questions welcome to the show by the way thanks for having me I appreciate the invite or you can ask for any amount of questions you have I got all the Time in the world all right Marcus have you ever had a position in epic cash nope oh you you and Max gave me epic cashman I've never had a position where are you holding them have you had a position right and I was going to ask the next question was how did you wire up a cash you answer that do you still hold you up a cash or did you sell it I sold it OK last question how did not know we already answered that I had he's going to ask how did you acquire your app cash later to sell so you received it as a gift and but when we listen to this and I want to share this from before you before can you roll that your racket up tight yeah I get a lot of coins because people want me to say good things about their project tonight and I get that what you're not the last coins I got was actually from who I think God is Bitcoins founder of the Satoshi whatever you wanna call them was from Roger veer I think Roger veer it is part of the teammate that launched a coin if you go in fact Opelousas I have a companion notes in and I'll be happy to send you the companion notes if you wanna include it for yourself sure we can after but but let's not talk about Roger let's taco taco bout the topic at hand wrote picture I'm just gonna share this is the comment everyone that died that triggered me and then Marcus instead of asking you to comment on the comment let's just let your comment stand and then I just want to ask a really Max Freeman and Todd Lewis who I guess would be considered the owners of epic cash what their feelings are here we go 321 has liquidity hold on hold i'm gonna rewind and I just want to this is very important for me the reason why I feel that you are dangerous at Marcus cause I want you to people to really pay attention it's just 42 seconds to the last word said here it's it said by another gentleman from Australia ounce of salt we love him and you can hear it in his voice that what he just learned from Marcus was surprising to him and he's taking it as new nation and so let me play this all right as liquidity application id recognition and even worse and talking to like to hear this guess who owns 99.9 98% of Apple Cash the owner not me the owner that's bad it's really bad time to look at I've been trying to orange thought about this is that that is ripe for a rug pole and owner rug pool is 99.988 something percent of all the tokens I know that's advanced stuff that's why I bailed out about the cash like that's a problem do you hear that then got him thinking Todd Lewis is there an owner who owns what is 91 Marcus Marcus how long have you been into crypto oh maybe a year and a half a year and a half you charge people money for consulting holding yourself out as an expert about cryptocurrency do you no never never charged a penny to anyone ever OK well I remember hearing a podcast are you talking about offering your consulting services and prefer for business for business customers for business and marketing for you so you charge money to share your knowledge with people that you've acquired over the past year and a half why don't you tell us what the difference between a coin tokens please I don't know OK I'm sure you know all right well that's quite frankly I don't care i'm not right just yet type I need I need 15 seconds let me screenshot for a second all right go toddler Metallica fan here we go is there music to that island i am not an audio video gets off the black album so the music is optional love this dead air Todd while he's teeing that up do you have any commentary yeah I would just like to say in full disclosure I also charge people money when I do work Portland so sorry for the echo that's in that didn't work so well so thank you for admitting that you don't know the difference between a coin and token i suggest if you're gonna charge people money for your services you should probably educate yourself first this is why we're taking time out of our day to educate you because we hope that you stop spreading your ignorant misinformation and lack of actual facts about what's going on so Todd would you tell this man what the difference between a queen and a token hey yeah I mean in the common parlance tokens are usually traded on someone else's chain Mika you're not smart contract chain like syrian bread is a coin is the base currency in in boxing decade usually due to cryptocurrency functions ok so tokens have an owner which is the person or group of people who created them and they exist as assets on another blockchain and there's usually a contractor controls lemon and often people have the building change that contract exactly that's a process property known as mutability our system is immutable which means it cannot be changed Marcus epic is a coin not a token there is no owner certainly no one has 99.98% of them so would you like to reveal to us what you happen to be looking at that led you to that conclusion sure I just posted it in the chat all right so you were looking at a token that is set up by one of our mining pools as a service for his clients to be able to offramp to finance smart chain that has absolutely zero to do with our chain so who's one of that's one of four that's one of four decks integration that people have have created out in the marketplace that has nothing to do with us that is not our product ok however I would like to speak up for epic holders being a complete liberty to wrap and re-pipe but keep the coins armor they want it's their property and their business what they do with it right and so Marcus you were talking about that as if it has something to do with our chain because you haven't taken the time to educate yourself OK well our project and yet you're not trashing us in front of thousands of people and we wish you would quit Hey Max did did you did you sensor me from your telegram channel so I can ask these questions which I didn't know I i did in your questions that you ask Marcus were absolute that's why I responded back when did you stop beating your wife because your questions were like these pompous eight questions but deserved more of an answer and you were like no yes or no yes or no yes or no actually toddler toddlers five questions and I'll give yeah I remember the questions to one question why is the first one was how do we know that the government can't hack into epic cash so I can answer that that's a technical question it's a simple question and no one was answering so I'll answer it you were comporting yourself in a rude way hey grandma standing in our in our community in front of thousands of people percent attention seeking and that's why we spent Sergio we have a place called Freeman University where you and everyone else is welcome to go and learn but if you go in there in front of thousands of people and make a scene absolutely we're actually I was here with out of line I was censored censored at that that that wanted the freedom University are mentioning what time would I get what would we like to answer the technical but yeah you're not 45 minutes to burn yep I say that and then my son needs then we lose Todd we lost your toddy what's ironic your respectfully Todd is that you or you were upset you were upset you originally got into the scene because you were upset with set with what Jeff Berwick and then the folks at the dollar vigilante did with you with censorship and now you're doing the same thing with me asking very five simple shins no no you you're making that very simple when I have when I have documented everything so that simple little false the surgeon I'm gonna dismiss this isn't about me this isn't about TCV this is about how you win and you win like to create a hit peace on crypto and I don't know if epic Cash was part of your agenda but you don't you don't know you didn't know that but the bullshit Marcus I'm not accepting this we're not talking about this this is boring I know Tyson boring questions there are five questions what if we give the man the answers to the questions that's all I asked for a simple note so number one how do we know that the government has a cracked epic cash what is that a fair statement of the question no I think it was something like how can we how can we be assured that the government doesn't have a back door into any cryptocurrency actually i didn't specifically say at the cat that's a fair question and I think that one wonder people probably don't pay enough answer to her pain attention to there are practically no cryptography algorithms that have correctness proofs and so it is hypothetically possible that that's something that someone like the national security agency could've had a mathematical breakthrough that allows them to compromise many or all of the cryptography algorithm algorithms which one do I all of cryptocurrency on the the specific algorithms that we use which establish integrity in the Blockchain the proof of work algorithms we do have pretty good empirical evidence that that that if they aren't if they have been compromised the compromises aren't being used because we can see the difficulty on the train one word to go and if you're not actively using the compromise then it's not then it's not hurting anything so we do know that empirically that it hasn't happened and that's the core mechanism for establishing consensus on the transaction history and epic cash so that the data shows but there is no active compromise on the other thing that I paid cash has that distinguishes it from from most other Blockchain projects as we have multiple proof of work algorithms in our chain so if there were compromise it would probably be in one of the algorithms because we have multiple algorithms we actually designed against the army it's probably impossible to use the compromise for single algorithm to do a arm to do a true fork and and do double spend the tax in epic cash because the other algorithms rotate in frequently enough that you can't exceed the block window armed and if all of them were compromised we have the engineering ability very quickly better than any other blotching I know of introduced new proof of work albums and work around it so that that's the way that we know that there is not active compromise of the of the consensus mechanism of the chain and why we believe that the transaction history has integrity is if it if the compromise if there were a compromise never being used we would see it and is that is that a fair answer your text that's all I was asking for that's a great answer man was not the other one was white how are you guys doing on your directories of acceptance of merchants that accept your point that's that's question for me i can I can I can speak to this one so we are experiencing grassroots adoption all over the world in person services such dog groomers massage therapist valet cleaners people that accept tips that people are using it for crowd funding through epic fund me at retail point of sale in locations as diverse as y'all of a turkey Miami Florida Las Vegas all over the world people are figuring out a way to adapt our technology into their specific use case because it is permission list and everyone can go and build on it like Robert the person who created the BSC bridge finance smart chain for his mining pool he also did stellar and is there and I'm based on market demand so we're experiencing grassroots organic adoption exploding all over the other thing I would say is you know in terms of where we are in our maturity curve him we still have a lot of a lot of product work to do to make it easier for people to use epic and transactions and where we're actively working on that we've had we've had a bunch of improvements in version three and the earliest option that we have in payments I think it's has been really helpful in terms of showing us what directions to Volpa chain what what new features to add sport merchants arms and and I'm a big believer that number one balls of fundamental breakthrough and how we perform the monetary function and that and Anna our mission is to is to bring us as a payment technology to the world and I'm ok with being early in the process I know it took us thousands of years to build a monetary system and it's gonna take a little elbow grease to two to take this technology in and get it into into a a workable form that that actually can be adopted at wide stereo so I no I don't I don't think any of us have suggested that you know development is down in the proper and in the system is perfect but we're we're off to a good start i think that the next question was are what's the what's the progress with your wallet with your own wallet that was like the third question if I met this is this this is going back like last year so I'm trying to remember when I asked yeah sure so that the wallet is there there there are two layers to the wallet there's the core wallet that the the quarantine supports and then has a command line interface so it's a reusable library which people can then put user interfaces on top and there's a lot of experimentation happening with the with the user interface and people putting on different kinds of user interaction on top of the Core technology so I'm I'm only responsible for the core wallet in Cornwall it again our our latest V3 version has a bunch of bunch of features in it as it's progressing well and the number of people putting putting user interfaces around it is increasing and we have a lot of experimentation up in that space so I would say it's progressing pretty well Max can you talk about the gooey wallet in the Diego wallet please yeah so in July we're gonna have two new new wallets which represent major breakthroughs for our usability pool boy out in Germany has been working on EC wallet which is a desktop gray with a very slick interface includes an integrated note so right now we have notes in 121 countries over 2000 cities this will enable us to get the rest of them and surpass BTC in note count by the end of the year hopefully because installing a wall it means you're also installing a note it doesn't require dozens of complicated error prone steps it's just a single install package with a few clicks so the pool boy desktop going well it will include not just a note but also integrated tour and an grok so you don't have to mess around with ports major major step forward and usability that's for desktop for mobile and tablet we have the darn socks wallet by Diego which will offer not just epic but beach bitcoin core ether does feral and Manero and also you'll be able to swap between those coins on a service called change now as well so in July we will have two major new ways that people can interface with their stored value on our chain and Max and thought I would insert a question here so would you rather release things into the wild before for their half baked and tested just to say that you did because Marcus was referencing that these were questions from a half year ago or is it better actually kid test mother approve and then do that again and again before you let it out there to where you could experience some kind of compromise where do you where you feel pacifically on tech development and it's always a balance the fact that we are implemented and rust gives us a lot of assurance about the safety yes of the core engine in the car wallet and in our are big are big V3 release that was was I think a major step forward the other thing that we spend a lot of time on his is automated testing and trying to do all the control behind scenes and I'd say we we do pretty well on that front am I and and when it comes to the innovation you know i know that you need a lot of different pieces in order to in order to take this the user experience forward and advancing to the point that people can be using it more and more widely and we're in this for the long grind man where we're determined to keep to keep grinding it upwards to keep after it until I told dream of memorable comes what is a dream a member wimble that we can build digital money which does all the all the things that it needs to do and fungibility is the major the major gap in the original bitcoin the song calm and then one more is the the clear winner in terms of the solution to that problem can you for the viewers it may have not even heard of member Wimble just now I know you had before but just humor me can you just help you describe nimble wimble what it does and why you chose you and Max chose it original owners of epic member one bowl is a technique with straws from number theory and let the cursed to let you craft a mathematical proof that the quantity of coins that comes into a transaction is equal to one of the appointment that leaves the transaction but with without showing what those quantities are because in the entirety of human history business people have never chosen a form of money which requires their transactions to be publicly visible because if you do you're you're setting yourself up to be taken advantage of by your buyers market partners on a privacy information as critical business and we know that because when you go back to the Sumerian clay tablets and we can see that come out of the brokers in ancient Sumerian I had exactly the same business practices the commodity brokers today do about about these things because they want the logic hasn't changed it's obvious and the way bitcoin was built we just didn't have algorithms for solving this problem and so all the quantities are public art because the one of these are hidden in a member of the system you do not know where the coins are but you still have the fundamental guarantee that new coins are being created and transactions from people are only spending the money they actually have there's a funny secondary proof you have to provide which is not just that the output the sum of the output is equal to the sum of the inputs but also that they're both positive cause otherwise you could put in one coins and send 100 coins to the laughed and -99 points to the right yes and yes and then you just ignore the -99 points and still totals to one so that's the second proof that you have to provide that that all the quantities are but is it fair in Maxx you can feel free to come in on this you two did not set out to create the best privacy queen on the planet but because of the technology that you had access to and 2019 I kinda like to think of it if if if Satoshi had a Mulligan and could relaunch bitcoin back in 200 play with knowledge and access to 2019 tech it would've been designed as if you read the bitcoin project today it would look like the cash that's exactly right so thank thank you Marcus Marcus again did we answer your question there that was three or the other oh and I against it and it was actually back in September right I just looked it up and I think one of the questions was do do you do you consider epic cash to be a store of value a currency or both score values is what is what Marcus on Yasko definition quest what would you consider good examples of store value to be so I can understand actually and I think it I think I'd probably ask the wrong? then if I were to correct that do you do you think that it can be a currency cryptocurrency a a tradable asset like it is it seems like it's currently because you're focused on price or both well and I'm not famously not focused on price I focused on technology from the it empirically it is trade Wassa today people are trading it in and then means of payment is is a the question of its acceptance in the economy which is very early and other small number of merchants which except up a cash boat but I'm OK with that we're we're we're still figuring out how to get the technology where it needs to be such that it's a good decision for merchants to accept his form of payment and we're still we're still grinding down that road I'm from I'm happy to if you want to follow i'm happy to answer that more in terms of the final final grains of study the different points of avoidant entitled Todd Lewis you and I've spent the last 10 weeks with our series the quest for superior money and we we actually go through all of these a store of value we have as a definition holding an asset that Mark Marcus we went I don't know if you've seen the series but when we went through unit of account store value medium of exchange add that we had that those are the core questions we're trying to answer the classic questions and hot and comparing up a cash to bitcoin gold physical federal reserve notes and digital federal reserve credits and we didn't and in-depth analysis of the money as of epic i guess classic criterion a bunch of Margaret yep we have about 30 to 35 attributes that we we wanna to do this to where let's just all agree but if we could create superior money it would have these attributes so we came up with those first anybody who goes through that series if you if there's anything we missed feel free to reach out and in and send it to me and we can add or discuss or if there's anything you think there shouldn't be on there i don't think he will but forgot I was gonna say some Marcus I don't know if you agree with our answers but I'm confident if you follow ups we can we can at least tell you what the answers are the store value just to go to to to the project that we've been working on we not only have those attributes but we put a definition of terms i am store value holding an asset that is proven to go up in value over time in Marcus again with all due respect that question like that question that you asked very good questions but that wasn't how the questions were presented they were presented as hard yes no and that's that's why we were so allergic because you would not have anything but I guess no answer focus on the positive here we are and we can there you go OK do you do you do you do you have a fifth? Us I think this was the final on us I sent it to you this Susan to give you some background in addition to my bit my business building that I'm most known for I'm also a full stack front end developer I am not a full stack back end developer so I just posted a get hub link and this claims and I looked at the code but again I'm not a back in programmer so I didn't run it I don't know for sure I can talk about Link belt it'll be fine so apparently this this person claims that it can break into member wimble and get 96% of the transactions right so so the link ability analysis on number one book chains consist of the following member wimble does hide the quantities but you can still see the transactions and this is fundamental because I'm used to the nature of a Blockchain is that you or am I you have the community consensus of what transactions have been done and and who has the power by virtue of having a private key to have dominion over a given Detroit asset debility to transfer it link it to whatever they want so fundamentally you still have to post the transactions to the chain and the chain still Hass to create consensus of the transaction is accepted the process of the the asset can go from the original owners of Newtown otherwise if you can't do transactions there's no point and if you use member limbo in such a way do you have a very simple transaction graph for example some of the we know how many coins our mind because it's in the it's in the code it's very public how many coins reminding each block and if you just have a single transaction from the queen-based creation of the coin into a wallet and you have to have 100 of those and those are the only transactions in question then you do know how much coins in that wallet it's 1 hundred times the block reward and you can see that from the transaction what number one will gives you is the ability to do subsequent transactions such that the final distribution of the coins is unknown because you've built a rich transaction graph now if people don't do those transactions then you can analyze the the the graph and you can in the case of simple transaction patterns reduce where where is the coins are bomb member one will still requires a positive start of continuing subsequent transactions in order to obscure where the coins ended up in a complicated graph you still need a complicated graph to get the most awesome and that is a valid criticism of the limitations of what number one will does it's tool it does certain things it gives you certain powers but it has limits and so I think the link ability criticism of grand and epic and the coins I think there is some validity to him and we've talked about you know that social exercise is it in his mostly social problem with things like fungibility Friday where everyone comes together and just introduces a bunch of transactions and is watching and creating and adding richness to the transaction graph such that we we are doing a better job of making chain analysis difficult this is one of the things appointing the core team is doing is we're doing surveillance on our own chain and we actually have in private graphs of the entire transaction history that we're analyzing we haven't shared them yet because they're really there is there they're not very good yet and we're talking about how to do the visualizations that's a lot of data and so if you just look at the graph it's very ugly graph you have to navigate around and and analyze him and this is a topic of of research for us terms of what facilities can we add the wallet to make these habits and these transaction patterns easier for users to do such that we unlock the full value Alliston but I think it's kind of i miss placed transaction because a it's always been possible to do these things from the first block on the chain and be on it doesn't if he doesn't change the power that epic gives users with nimble wimble to do what they need to do and the argument that we we haven't done it yet is as valid argument and it's definitely something that we we wanted intend to improve on arms but but it is known how to do it and people are doing it and we're never gonna force people to do it if if minors just want to take your corner boards and dump them in a Minor wallet and everyone knows how much money reward they have in that wallet that's really their business you know and and we're not in a position to force people to do something else but people don't know who those are that clumsy hit piece Marcus I sent you in a rebuttal argument from Tillman on sub stack stack I recommend you read there's been a half a dozen or more at least articles since then I had to talk about playing floss the claim for the claims that he carryover but the author does not unjust as you did not understand the difference between a coin and a token the author does not understand the difference between an address and a UTEXO and unspent transaction output makes a number of basic flawed assumptions at the get-go and garbage in garbage out as a programmer you know that he starts in the wrong place and it gets worse from there so that is just click bait at a motivated hit piece by somebody that had a financial interest in speculating against the value of that particular asset in this case grin right after I got added to the FTX shit purple index that that came out so it was very transparent the motivated reasoning that was there so no even if you know which outputs went to which which minor when you spend them you have dandelion plus plus which i'm scared is the IP of who that user is and you can also do transactions off-line you can do them through tour you can do them through ITP all kinds so even if you did have a transaction graph it's extremely limited utility and anyone that wants to take even a basic modicum of care to obscure their trail can easily do some epic also did something which was suggested in the original bitcoin proposal but never actually done which is having different addresses for each transaction and him and that that also goes a long way two to ensuring that the attic aggregate ownership is on it's not doable from the outside right that's like that's like mixing oh well but this is this is different addresses since it's not technically mixing but next thing is is at it is as well right Rachel those were those were the those were the original questions and by the way I I do get I i do take I do get upset when Todd and Max say that they were Yesno questions I have the questions in front of me they're not Yesno yes no questions paper exact same questions I just asked right now they were not Gessner do you have any new questions Mark I have one new question yeah i was blown away I had I do follow you guys from time to time I can't sit through the checkmark stuff one suggestion if you're up for it is to make a link of where this check where this is I tried to find I couldn't find it Marcus let me let me respond to you because we have we've spoken about this time and time Time again I know you don't have time for it to suffer through it but this is an exercise a dedicated exercise it'll take all in probably where we probably have one if not two more live streams to go through and what what we were the point we are at is on Wednesday we have it's matter fact let me show this to you I'm gonna share my favorite is it fair to say we were we still consider ourselves drafting it and yeah so basically here's where we are at Marquez we have gone all of the one where you cannot see either a check or next time and I've gone throat through those and we have a greed on that that basically I got my guesses right mate mate not guesses but the but I think we're thoughtful answers right the ones that remain Todd Disagreed with me on and on Wednesday 11 AM Eastern time Max and Todd are going to come on and they're gonna debate each other then at the end of this we're gonna ultimately have one to where we feel good as a team that all of these that this will be that that that we've nailed with resource the best of our ability and then what I'm gonna do is we're going to final edit this and release it to the wild to where it's going to in you'll notice we have some work to do but we noticed that we we we include definition of terms so all of these attributes that we've gone through here where it where we have the definition of terms we missed a few but that's OK look this is ask you can we please alphabetize that list of the definitions I mean oh the definitions yes OK thank you I was gonna say I don't wanna have to exist for Marcus if you Marcus if you message me your email will make sure that you get a copy when it's released yeah and then in Mark Marcus I just wanna let you know so to answer your question we are going to release this but we wanted to get it right and I hope you can appreciate it's like not we did we wouldn't want to release code before it's ready we're going through the kid testing mother approved stage right now now we're also going to release with it a version that is going to have all of the answers shown so that so it'll be two documents one will be interactive one will be a hard PDF with all the answer shout and our goal is to give this as a tool for people let's figure you're sitting down and you're you're talking to somebody that it's just call lynn to Minero why not add a six column here and say cool let's go through this thought experiment together in in in what do you think you know appeared appear is epic peer-to-peer yes eczema as a peer to peer yes you know etc. so we're trying mark as I don't know another project out there that is going to the depths that we are to be able to educate our community and we're not just saying you know epic good do you know FOMO we're going to the moon we're not not doing that we're trying to take an intellectual approach which is why I get offended when I when when when I hear things that I know that that just triggered me because I know that they're just baseless and so I hope you can at least respect the work that we're putting into it that it would would you respond to that what it's it's that's why I followed your lead and and and if you remember I said tell me i hear a bunch of echo I know it's but it's better now that's why I followed your lead and you suggested to talk to Max and I spoke to him for two hours so Yeah i mean I will need subsequently you know the exit in Will U2 here is asking questions and we're giving answers let's just let's just do the happy weight so that so that the final question is that I didn't ask it a year ago is and I have to admit this this one was mine blowing to me because you guys of always touted being a private yes privacy I forget the word to use privacy seeking or you didn't you were kind of careful the way you said privacy but it was definitely on your homepage I don't know if it's still there it did this coin is about privacy and then when you guys got listed on bit Mart my head exploding bit more is KY kYCNML now I know you're gonna say we did that because we wanted to get marketshare blah blah blah but that if I were a person looking to to invest into a privacy coin and I heard that you're going through a bit mart with KY see an AML that's a hard pass next minute ok I have two cents as well go ahead talk to you first yeah so bit Mart doesn't need her permission to do an integration know KYC exchange needs our permission to do it integration epic is an open platform that absolutely anybody can build on ramps and off ramps to him and strictly speaking it's none of our business whether they do or not and users who wanna go through a KYC platform and buy the corner sell the coin through KYC platform also none of our business right yeah but didn't you at in fairness Todd didn't you guys pay to be listed on Dittmar who is who is you can who is you guys here I don't see you guys I just listen to Todd talk about it and we paid this amount of money and we are a decentralized community project operated by volunteers we are three of among 270 countries that contribute our time so there is no central organization no company no VP of strategic is dad or whatever that makes these decisions individuals from within the community who wanted to spend their money decided to jump through the hoops and list it on but might want because many people for years were coming in thanks we want a different type of exchange that's easier to use that we know how to work with you guys should go with this go with that and so after careful consideration after talking to 107th St. Mart was the one that these individuals choose but I didn't pay a penny for a bit mart because I didn't believe in it Todd Lewis what is the people did not pay but you know what some people did because they viewed it as they're in their enlightened self interest to make the value of their coins go up it would be a smart investment for them so you can't have guns don't kill people people kill people and if people wanna go and use our tech on any kind of platform they can and not any of us in on this phone call nobody in the world can have anything to say about that it is open I would ask the question back in the other direction to your Mark it's not I'm genuinely interested in your opinion should we have tried to stop them and if so yes i would love an animal and human and how how when why would we even stop anyone from doing anything we don't have that kind of power i don't have any I think there needs I think they're beat needs to be a meeting at a better meeting of the minds from a marketing perspective because you know Todd is your spokesman right now no whether you like it or not that's not that's why we have dozens of people out there speaking their truth about what epic means to them we do not have it how many how many of those how many of those people how many does people have a weekly show with the two founders precisely as many as want to write what I tried before and I got censored so you haven't invited me on your podcast no no I tried to ask that simple questions on on telegram in a bit but you said Todd is is the official voice of epic that's why I didn't attend it it appears to be that way because that's the he's the only one he's getting i couldn't get a fuck what other people think they see what all I care about is the truth and it appears you because you won't do us the courtesy before you go talk in front thousands of people in trash ass beat Magner and misinformed statement do you wanna do the bit of research to do us the courtesy of learning what you don't know so it appears to you because you don't have eyes to see Max I tried I tried to talk to you for two hours without yourself so I cannot feel anything in our no no don't want you in our chest behaving like this time we have a call John Lewis am I am I feeling badly was with those five questions behaving badly on I didn't see them in the chat but I believe they i support the decision to send to you and we takes three speech very seriously OK it wasn't just those questions to be everything that surrounded it and all of the back-and-forth and there's no answer the question I said is anyone having a simple yes or no that's all I said because no one i thought they weren't simple yes or no are the questions that were not yes or no and then no one answered it I asked hello and then I said oh yes or no that's it that's all I said guys may I suggest that we stop talking about the past what in the hell are we gonna achieve right now it looks Marcus raised appointment I think it deserves an answer end and when I when I heard that I should should I have i've done something in that one should I have done something to stop people listing on benchmark first of all I don't have the power to do anything to stop them we're free software project people can take our code whatever integration and as long as they're submitting signed transit properly signed transactions to the watching watching is gonna process them because the Blockchain is an utterly neutral platform the owners the coins can do whatever they want with them not central to the mission of who we are and what what platform is we don't control what people do with their property and if people want to hypothecate custodians and do whatever else that's their business I just got the impression after listening to some of your shows that this was fully endorsed by everyone who's on the call right now Marcus let me give you a little history lesson OK there were there were lots and lots of people who were totally displeased with white multi quality that the Volpa multi exchange wallet and we were it was intense in those chats to where the ankle biters were out and drugs and it was all about the spread being wide and this is why you should get on an exchange we need to get on on KYC exchanges were never gonna end it's too hard to get it so that that that knitting knitting nipping nipping nipping it became an issue to where there was a high majority of the people in there that were sick fundamental than that yeah OK which is people are gonna go do what they wanna do and if people wanna spend their own money to do an integration that's really good autonomous I'm responding to this because I happen to have a little bit of a fight I'm an empath I have a high EQ and I'm sitting you're looking at this and I have IIII pivoted my holdings in the epic cash so I have a personal interest in in price go up and so I'm like what the hell do I know the whole premise of my show is I don't know shit except this is my journey and I'll learn so I'm sitting there thinking hey you know what OK maybe these guys are right maybe the silver bullet is to be able to get on the KEYC exchange where then we are easier to acquire for people they can still take it to an off-line but I need a wallet to wear they'll get all of that that the security features that they desire of privacy is in the water at the Morphe but the more fundamental point is we're not adventure backed company with a cold and a control structure we're not out there making hierarchical corporate decisions as a unitary carry organization there's the cortex and the Blockchain and people who submit signed transactions to the Blockchain have those transactions processed and that is it yeah everything people do beyond that is their own choice as members of a loose community and and the the idea that the fridge for example me and in the core tech team would stop people from listing on bit martyr integrating bit more or whatever first once technically almost impossible and second of all it's against the entire mission of what we're trying to do which is property ownership ok if you have the key the coins are yours and if you want to transfer them in and out stick them with somebody else transfer to them to someone else under whatever terms you see fit to contract with that's your business because it's your property ok so this whole notion that that we are unitary organization not true right the idea that we are controlling what people do with the technology also not true it's free software download it from GitHub right in and the idea that we're gonna do anything to stop people people from having dominion over their property is a real misunderstanding of the fundamental nature of what the project is if you have the key the Coins are yours and you are a complete liberty to do with them what you want because it's intended to be money that's what money is supposed must be a Marcus I'm really curious whether you disagree with that is philosophical point I if I if you were to ask me that question again I would've turn it slightly different again when you have a weekly show where are you today I didn't know you were found her by the way I thought was Max so you are a cofounder arms I'm assuming max max came up with the idea and a max came to me and I made a very minor changes to the idea it was it was beautiful it was a beautiful design so what I'm saying is you you and Max are the cofounders of Apple Cash is that a proper way to say you can call us that I lead the team but at the initial one technical implementation market were done there were dozens of people that contributed to the launch of epic back in 2019 ok but my point is again when I when I come in a couple in a couple times and I see Todd interviewing Todd and Max on a weekly basis and they're talking about how we we spent this money to get into bit Mart I am assuming and you know the word asses in assume that you personally were funded the company Apple Cash was funding that we had at your opening now that you're telling me that there's no company and everyone can do what they want that that declaration Marcus Marcus let me look at everyone this is rhetorical progress we're gonna give me 60 seconds man is Marcus if and I know you don't hang on every word of my show you don't watch my show and but you would've heard many many times that I and another friend of mine Mr. peas within the group it was a the $50,000 listing fee right we stepped up here and I refunded that listing fee from most people would look at that and that and say hey uncle D's leading with his chin something nice for the great and you turn it upside down no negative no I didn't I i didn't I didn't know it was your money I thought it was weird when you say we I thought you meant at the cash put the money no but I have shared this cool uncle take the win the win man be gracious well we've had great progress in this hour answering the questions clearing up the confusion explaining it but all the questions are very reasonable we have we had great answers to them let's call it a hey fellas just for show it so I agree I agree Marcus if you'd like me to come on yours and talk cash I'm happy to do so and after we publish the thing maybe you come back and go through and share your opinion about the money it's about the well I can tell you this from a marketing guide i'm assuming that you guys are closing down the shore right now are you guys doing our yeah it's hard stuff it's a hard stop knock knock hard hard I'm home if you more minutes OK ok so I can tell you this from a market in I teach marketing talk to Todd he said on his show that I'm the best marketer on the planet I don't agree with that I think Dr. Fauci is but I'll take doubt in marketing you don't when you if you're selling travel you wanna sell the vacation you don't want to sell the TSA and I believe you guys are selling the TSA instead of instead of the vacation the hope that whole checklist dang that's great if someone is already in Moon Arrow and they're very technical and it's probably less than one percent of the potential audience but my wife has no she has a lot of money coming in September because we we cashed out retirement and we wanna put it somewhere if we wanted to put it somewhere she would never even consider you are you guys because it's way above her head and I think she's the perfect idea that maybe you guys disagreed well and this is why we have both in a propeller head marketing idiots like me talking about the engine room and how the machinery works and also the marketing friendly people out spreading the message and it's a community effort so last person on the last person to hold out my engineering podcast with uncle V as great marketing contact him at Mountain market Utah eight you talk about me having a show coming i want a couple times a week or winter volunteer I do this because I love this project and I put in my hours in so insane so all I do when I have taught honor Maxon or any of that my guest son I'm doing that for the community because I i mean show me other projects that have somebody out there like me who is literally trying to facilitate information it used to happen I think with Moon Arrow they had Monero talk you know Diego used to be on that a lot you know before he before he came even started developing the epic wallet which is gonna be the stacks wallet he by the way created the homeowners cake wallet which is by far the top standard within crypto and he's the one who's designing ours which is gonna be out this month it's awesome set a rate is that a rhetorical question is what a report question I came name someone out some name someone else who is more committed blah blah blah I did i can't name one OK who partner who pump Liano no no no no no no Richard hart where do you like home is it a stand down he went yes Richard Hart is is a king of marketing process is flowing everywhere in this call just out of you a Marco spray we're gonna on Bannu i could be trouble that's great it'll be great I am a Marcus when you have some more questions come on and I'll answer them OK I'll go through certain we'll hook up yep I appreciate your time guys all right no no marks we're not going to unbend you and tell you publicly and acknowledge knowledge and apologize for the the fact that you made defamatory fraudulent and false allegations and I give me the chance right now to correct this and I'd like you to further do that in front of your audience until you do that you're not on band would you like it is a beautiful and it is a beautiful day here in Lancaster county Pennsylvania I appreciate you having thank you Marcus great times guys all right thanks Todd thanks.